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Courtney Pauroso is an LA-based actor, writer and comedian, who traveled the world and the United States as the child of a military family. She co-wrote and appeared in Two Pink Doors, a series of 5-minute shorts for FX, directed by Dr. Brown, and has appeared onscreen in projects such as Jackass Forever, Reno 911, Key & Peele, and 2 Broke Girls. She’s also a former member of the Groundlings Sunday Company and Washington D.C.’s Synetic Theater. After bringing her clown show, Gutterplum, to the Edinburgh Fringe in 2019 for a sold-out run, she returned in 2023 with something even more ambitious, Vanessa 5000, a show about a sex robot gone rogue. Courtney sat down with me between shows to talk about her life and career.

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This transcript has been edited and condensed only slightly for your convenience.

So last things first Courtney: Do blonde sex robots have more fun?

Yeah, for sure, for sure. I know I did consider, maybe I should switch wigs throughout the show or whatever. But it's just a blonde wig. I don't know where I got that wig from. I think I accidentally stole it from a friend of mine, like years and years ago, and I grabbed it when I was trying the bit for the first time, but I'm very attached to it now. To the point where I don't want to buy a new one. It's so nasty. And I just got it washed and restyled before I came.

So you didn't consider any others?

I mean, I was like, oh, maybe it would be cool if I switched hair in the middle at some point or whatever, but just didn't really go there.

So no brunette or as they say over here, a ginger.

Yeah. I thought it would have been cool if she had like really dark like straight hair. But then I kind of would have looked really goth in a way and so sometimes it just turns out how it turns out with what you have lying around for your costume.

So this is not your first Fringe.

This is not my first Fringe. No.

Nor is it even your second

It's my third. Yeah.

Courtney Pauroso on Instagram: “The exact moment I self-actualized”

August 24, 2023

So tell me, as an experienced pro of the Edinburgh Fringe, how does it compare this time to what you previously knew?

Well, the first time I came was in 2015 with a friend of mine’s show to support. I was support and so it was very low pressure and like everything was figured out for me and I just got to come and hang out with my friends and I drank a lot of pints, you know I walked around Scotland a lot. I felt like a tourist. I mean, I did see shows but I just wasn't like as clued in to everything that was happening, probably. But it was so much fun. I loved it. And then I came back in 2019 with my first solo show, which was Gutterplum.

August 24, 2023

Did you feel like when you came here for your solo show that you knew what you were in for, because you had been here before?

A bit. I mean, it was helpful, but it's much more pressure when it's you. I was very nervous that time and I was like afraid to humiliate myself. This time, I kind of decided to go last-minute because I was jealous of everyone else that was saying they were going so I was like I'm gonna go, too! And I hurried up and made a show. It's always nerve wracking to come and you're worried about sales and it's such a long month of — it's so hard to do a show every night just on your body. But I'm trying to be a little more. I'm trying to see more shows because I'm less nervous about my show. Or I'm just like, I want it to be good. But also I want to enjoy myself.

Was Gutterplum also through Stamptown?

No, it was through Soho Theatre in London. Yeah, yeah. So they produced that show, which was awesome. Because they, you know, really hooked it up. Stamptown did a great job for me this year, too.

But I mean that just having, whether it's Soho or Stamptown as a producing partner, has to take a lot of pressure off of you because there's thousands of shows, hundreds of comedy shows, and so many people flyering, so many people competing for your attention, for your time. The fact that you don't have to go out there yourself on a rainy Sunday.

Right? No, I'm very grateful for it. When people are self-producing their shows, that's a whole other feat on top of the feat of doing a show and I've seen a lot of good self-produced shows so good for them.

We just met recently. I've seen you perform a few times. But it seems to me that both your personal and your professional life took kind of like the meandering roundabout path. Personally, is it safe to say you're an army brat?

Yeah, yeah.

Is that a term that you identify with?

Sure, totally. Totally. I moved 10 times before I graduated high school and so I’m a very classic army brat. Yeah.

Do you feel like that encourages or pushes you into becoming an actress, even if that's not what you were thinking off the bat because going to these new environments year after year, it's forcing yourself to reintroduce yourself to strangers on a constant basis, but also gives you the opportunity if you wanted to, to change your personality because these people don't know who you are.

Yeah, totally. I mean, I was kind of a shy kid and I am a little shy myself. I mean, I'm not like, awkwardly shy. But I was very like observational. I think as a kid, like my move whenever I moved was always to kind of just lay low and figure out what the hell was going on and like, what people were doing and then kind of pick my friends and all that. So yeah, I mean, I think it made me very flexible. Because I didn't even really think about it being weird that I was moving all the time. My mom did a good job of making it seem cool and making it fun and helping us transition. I was like, yeah, this is what I do. But I think it made me very flexible to new environments. And I think that probably is the thing that I feel stayed with me. Yeah.

At what point did the acting bug really take hold, though?

I was like one of those kids that always wanted to be an actress. I don't know. Like, my grandma kind of implanted the idea in my head. So I never, it's kind of embarrassing to be one of those little girls, but I was always like, yeah, I'm an actress. I'm gonna be an actress. And I was doing plays and all that kind of stuff. From the time it was really little. It was like finding comedy that was a discovery later on.

You went to Tulane, right? How did you pick Tulane?

I got a little scholarship, and I had auditioned for some theater programs that I didn't get into. But yeah, I truly didn't think about it that much. I went to high school in Texas. So I was either gonna go to UT, or to Tulane. I ended up getting the scholarship. And I was like, sure, I didn't even really think about what it would be like to live in New Orleans. I was 17. I was really young when I went to my first year of college, too. But yeah, I loved it. It turned out to be really good for me. And I love New Orleans.

Were there specific techniques that you learned, acting-wise at Tulane that still stick with you?

Yeah, totally. I had I had really good teachers there. And I did a lot of kind of physical theater like Suzuki method. I had a teacher that did that with me. Do you know that?

I am afraid I'm unfamiliar with.

Suzuki method is like Japanese physical theater style. And Suzuki. Do you know who Anne Bogart is? She did Viewpoints. It's like very theater world stuff. And they collaborated. But anyway, it's like kind of a physical theater training method where you do all kinds of weird stuff and like stomp around, and it's all about like getting energy into your body. And so I'm doing a bad job of explaining it because it was so long ago now.

Certainly Vanessa 5000 has a lot of stomping.

Totally. I mean, it did introduce me to like physical theater, and then I did physical theater in DC before I moved to LA.

Synetic, right? That's not Jason Zinoman’s mom, is it?

No, but I know her because my mother took her acting class in DC.

Now that’s a fun fact.

It's a really fun fact. Yeah, so I do I am familiar with the Zinomans. Yes. So I was in the DC theatre world for two years. So yeah.

At that physical theater, did that include clowning or everything but the clown?

I mean, Synetic, looking back, there were like clown elements. And even we we did like wordless Shakespeare productions and, wordless Shakespeare Macbeth, I played the porter. And so I'm like, that was kind of clowny. And it was so weird that they like picked me to do that of all of all people. And I really liked it. And I had done a clown class. I did this program when I was like 19 at Michael Howard Studios in New York. And I took a clown class as one of my many classes there and I remember loving it and I had no idea what it was. And I didn't do it again for years, but it was my favorite class. It was very mysterious.

Then you head out to Los Angeles. And you weren't expecting to join the Groundlings but it was kind of fortuitous.

It was! Yeah. Yeah. I ended up living right off of Melrose and I wanted to take classes and started doing that and I liked it way more than I expected. Because, I, especially then was like, pretty shy. But if you're like, OK, you have to get onstage. I was always like the last student to get up. I would like find myself saving myself and I was like, oh, shit, I guess I'm a little funny.

Did you find yourself leaning more improv or sketch at that point?

At Groundlings, you always start doing improv and then you start writing. But I do think that once I started writing for myself, that's when something really clicked. Yeah.

Of course, the other thing that most lay people know about the Groundlings is that there's a pipeline to SNL. Or if not that something crazy like Pee-wee Herman. Did you know about that when you went in the building for the first time? How much did that appeal to you or put pressure on you once you started?

I knew about it a little bit. Because I started seeing a lot of shows there my first year or two in LA, and I was like, wow, I really liked what everyone was doing. And then you see all the pictures on the walls and all this stuff. But it wasn't something that like I knew really about before I moved to LA. I didn't even see myself as a comedian, so I wasn't so hooked into that and then I weirdly due to a secretarial error moved through the program really fast. I really, I skipped a line. I didn't do a waiting list for my writing class or whatever that you normally have to wait a year for. So basically, I was kind of like already in it by the time I realized, like what it all meant. And then I cared, you know, and then I was like, Oh, wait, everyone's getting SNL auditions and oh my God.

I remember distinctly when the Nasim Pedrad got Saturday Night Live. it was like even more of a big deal because she was from the Sunday company. She wasn't even in the main company. She was in the Sunday Company. Yeah, everybody's like, what? Was that possible? And it was kind of like a mini scandal in the LA comedy community.

I mean, there's always mini scandals.

But you’d just started Groundlings at that point.

Yeah, no, and it was exciting watching people be like, I saw that person. I was going to those shows, I was walking down the street and there they are, you know. It did make things seem possible, that were really exciting.

I know there's a character reel that you put out 10 years ago. Have you ever auditioned for SNL?

I've only done like the first round.

That’s when scouts come to visit you at the Groundlings.

Yeah, I never tested. I didn't do it at the Groundlings. It did it somewhere else. I think it was at the old ioWest. I was invited to do one of those like first-round showcases but that's it.

Where Lorne’s not even there. But it's the casting people.

Yeah, Lorne’s not even there. Yeah, yeah.

So when you made that character reel that was that during — I seem to recall, there was a period where everybody was uploading character reels, but half of them weren't actual SNL auditions.

Yeah. They were just doing it to have them up there.

Well, they were saying it's my SNL reel. But they never actually went through the process. They were just, I don't know if they were trying to fake out NBC or they were trying to fake out us as viewers.

I knew people that were posting ones that they had made and sent to SNL but hadn't gone anywhere, you know, like, because it was like their first-round tapes. And it was just

Because you could be asked to make one.

Yes. Yes. Yeah.

Then there were other people who were doing it either as a joke, or they were doing it hoping.they’d get noticed. Which was the form that yours took?

I mean, mine was a complete joke. I think that was after I had auditioned for them, maybe, I don't know.

It was a parody. It was, in essence, an SNL sketch about SNL.

Yes, yes. Yes. Yeah. I mean, I had made in previous years like ones that were like, I was actually trying to do one and sent it in and wouldn't have ever posted that (publicly). During like the summers when that was like a whole thing in the world that I was in, people would be like, I have to make my SNL tape, I have to make my SNL tape! It made me laugh so hard, like the stress of it all. And for myself, too, and I was like, I thought it would be funny to have a meltdown during it. And use all my stupid costumes.

So at the point that you made the tape, had you pretty much set aside any hopes of doing that? If you even had the hopes?

Yeah, I mean, maybe not fully set aside. Like growing up, like, that's never where I saw myself. Once I was in the mix of that. I was like, oh, yeah, that would be cool. Like, I wish they would ask me to audition, but I wasn't like deeply disappointed that I wasn't and then yeah, like, I wasn't worried about that ruining my actual chances or anything.

So what were you envisioning yourself doing?

Like as a kid?

Yeah, if you weren't if you weren't picturing SNL What were you picturing? Was it movies? Was it sitcoms? Was it both?

I don't really know. I mean, I just knew I wanted to be an actress. So at different points I probably envisioned different things for myself. But I think when I was like younger, like when I had first started theatre school, I was like, I'm gonna be a serious actress.

OK, so it wasn't like you were you were imagining, oh, I'm gonna be in Progressive Insurance commercials for years and years and years.

No, but damn, I'd love to do that now.

That's my segue to when was the first time you met Natalie Palamides?

I met her actually, at an audition where she had seen that reel. And I hadn't met her yet. And she was like, Courtney! Courtney!. And I was like, fuck, I don't remember. I don't know this person's name. And then, you know, I realized that she just like, had complimented me on my video. And I was actually in a weird mood. And I had like, run out of the audition. Anyway, that's where we actually met

Do you remember what the audition was for?

It was a salt commercial. I don't know why you need to advertise salt, but I swear to God, it was a salt commercial.

I mean, there are many brands.

Yeah, yeah. Neither of us got it. And then I started to see her perform. And I thought she was amazing. So we were acquaintances for a while and then became friends eventually.

But she was the one who lured you into the cult of Philip Burgers, right?

Well, she let me know about his class. Yeah, so then I started doing that after.

So at this point, you meet Natalie, you see her show. You're intrigued by it, she tells you more. What were your preconceptions of clowning at that point?

You know, my only real experience with it was this class that I had taken over the summer, however many years ago that had been at that point. But I was at a kind of a low point, personally, or I had been experiencing a lot of stage fright, and not really knowing what to do after Groundlings because, you know, I got such good training there. But it's like they do a certain thing. And it fits in a certain context. So when people were like, come do a show. I'm like, what do I do??? Like, I just go up? And so that really freed me up and it helped me unlock a new way to perform using skills I'd already attained. Also, I think I was myself, like leaning towards some clowny stuff. Like, that's what I wanted to do at Groundlings so it kind of helped me be like, oh, yeah, you can just do that.

Did you know Phil at all? Or his work as Dr. Brown?

No, but I mean, his class was really huge for me. Like, it really changed my life.

Tell me more!

I remember taking his class. And it's so mysterious. Like, you don't really get an explanation of how you're supposed to do it. Or it's this, this and this, like, you're thrown into nothingness, you're like, get your ass on stage and fucking do something, you know. So that was really like, fascinating to me. But eventually, when I started, you know, everyone fails in a clown class, but I felt like I was getting it to some degree, and I was very excited by it. And I was like, this is for me. I remember Phil saying in one of the classes, when I was like, doing well, he was like, ‘Look at her. She's so broken. You know, she's so broken, and we love her.’ You know, and I kind of like connected to that, because I had felt like such a failure in my life. It was a weird time for me, but I think it helped me connect that like, once you're so broken, you don't give a shit anymore. Like you're actually so free. And it's really powerful. I latched on to that.

Is that what makes you gutsy?

Maybe, yeah, yeah.

Your last name is Italian. And it means scary.

Yes, yeah.

Do you feel like that implicitly or explicitly informs your clown personality?

I think it's really a funny coincidence, because it can mean scary or scared or like, coward. I mean, I don't really know Italian but apparently, it can kind of mean creepy or fearsome or fearful. It has various meanings, but the root word is fear. And yeah, I think that's really interesting and I think that is a big part of what I do, whether it's intentional or conscious or not.

What kind of fear do you want to strike in the hearts of your audience? Is it a scary fear? Or is it more like a roller coaster ride kind of fear?

Um, I don't know, I guess I never really thought about I mean, for me, I'm like, I'm feeling I'm scared. I'm scared to do this, you know, and then I have to flip it and be the scary one, you know? But yeah, the roller coaster thing adds up to me. You know, I like doing sharp turns. So I think that's fun to like, lure the audience in with something and then switch it up. And so they they don't know what to expect. And that can, hopefully, if it works, be a little, you know, scary in a fun way. Or electrifying if I'm lucky.

When you started forming Vanessa 5000. I mean, we spoke briefly earlier this summer, when you were bringing it through New York City, and you were talking about how you were still, like, frantically workshopping parts of it. Was it intentional or coincidental or just happy circumstance that this show has become, dare I say timely?

Yeah, it was a coincidence, I think. Well, I had been working on the physicality of a robot for years. Like, I have, like old Instagram videos from a long time ago, me like bopping around. Because that, just the physical play of it was really appealing to me. And I have even done a bit as a robot a couple times, like years ago when I was developing my last show, but it got scrapped. And then yeah, that was like, for the past year and a half, that's really all that I wanted to work on, whether it be focused or laziness, but I was like, this is what I'm working on, the robot. And yeah, I think the conversation around AI and, you know, all that stuff gave me a lot of play off.

There's AI. There’s late-stage capitalism.

Totally.

I mean, that's kind of the Barbie movie somehow feels relevant today.

Right? Yeah, I think it was a is a lucky coincidence. But also, you know, I think it helps to do the show that all these ideas are kind of with everybody there. And so I only need to kind of reference them for them to hopefully evoke some feeling out of the audience or some opinion or something. Because we're surrounded by technology and advertising. It feels like we're being told all the time that we're on the precipice of some huge shift. And perhaps we are, you know.

I mean, I wrote this in my review. But I mean, there's clown shows, you think of a clown show, you think of the circus, you think of, you know, funny audience interactions, you don't often think that there's going to be some, like, subtle or not so subtle, revelations and deep messages, or even exquisite guitar work.

Exquisite. Hey!

Maybe poignant.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. My very low level bass skills. But I try, you know, but that's good for clown to not be so good at your skill, actually.

When did you first pick up the guitar?

Pandemic. Because now I was learning guitar. And I was like, well, maybe we'll start a band one day. And so I was like, I'll play bass. And then I dated two bass players in a row. I know! I know. But it was like a fun little. I mean, I'm not great at it. But I enjoy it.

That comes across.

Oh, good. Good, good. Good.

So where do you see Vanessa 5000 going from here?

I don't know. I mean, I'm honestly just trying to get through this month and see what happens because I just have to do what's in front of me, but I think I am glad that some people are connecting with it. And it makes me really happy to see that you see that there maybe is a bit more depth underneath it or that I think there is the potential to sort of, not address but — I'm just glad that that there is a bit of a deeper meaning or deeper feeling that's coming through because I am definitely scared of the future. And I feel like that's kind of what's like, makes it fun for me to play with these these kind of robot games, I guess. Yeah.

Well, I mean, it is in your name to be scared.

Yes. Yeah, I know. I'm fucking terrified. Yeah.

Natalie was able to turn one of her Fringe shows into a Netflix special. It takes a lot of work, but also a lot of thought and how you adapt the stage show. Would you want to turn Vanessa 5000 into something that people can watch in their homes or on their mobile phones? Or even watch via their own robots?

Oh, yeah. Oh, wait, now, no, I'm like, I don't know about that. But yeah, I mean, I'm definitely open to it. I always use licensed music in my shows, which is oopsie for recording it. So now somebody's got to buy it and pay for my Nine Inch Nails songs. But um, yeah, well, let's see. Let's see. I mean, I think it could be cool to do it, like on a bigger scale with like, really good tech would be awesome. But you know, see what life has in store for me.

If I catch up with you in say, 10 years, do you think you'll still be clowning?

Um, I hope so. I mean, I've seen so many really good clown shows this Fringe that have been really inspiring to me that are very, very simple, pure clowning. Julia Masli’s show. I don't know if you've seen her yet. Yeah, she has a new show called hahahahaha. And I thought it was fucking stunning and beautiful. And then I just saw this show last night. It's called Furiozo. His name is Piotr. He's Polish. And we were in a clown class together and very simple, very pure clowning. And I think this show is like kind of tech. And it's very verbal. It's more verbal, like there's clown elements. But I do think it's a bit of a hybrid or you know, I don't know if it would pass the clown test or whatever, right? Who gives a shit. But anyway, I when I see things like that, I'm like, I want to do something like that, next, actually, that's, like, so simple. And that you could do anywhere. And I say that. As you know, like, I'm 38. I want to have a family so bad. So I'm like, I got to get on that like ASAP, you know? But I think that when I see these beautiful pure clowns, that really reminds me what it is that us clowns are supposed to do. I'm like, yeah, I gotta try to be doing that forever.

True, but if you don't have babies, where will the future clowns come from?

I know! I'm saying I want to have babies. I want to make new clown babies.

I mean, where do you think clowns come from?

So I want to, I think I can see both of those things that I want existing in the future is what I mean. Yeah. We'll see.

Well, we may both be scared of the future. But presently, I had a great time talking with you and your show is fantastic.

Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. Thanks for coming, and I'm glad you liked it.

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